It’s no secret I’m lurking on various golf courses three and four days a week now, but I came across Ian Palfrey at the Met Junior Championship down at Fairmont Country Club in Chatham, New Jersey and wrote about his decision to stick with golf beyond high school.
He’s still very excited about the upcoming hockey season, and really believes ETB is going to give some of the established powers a run. There’s a lot of really good players coming back, and there’s a chance those guys could scare a couple of the perennial frontrunners in Division I.
Anyway, the schedule prohibits me from posting a lot, and there has been some news we need to catch up on. Be patient, I’ll get to some of it in the weeks ahead. There’s a lot of time until the first day of practice. Stay out of the sun.
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BP Defenseman from Irvington. Congrats.
http://usahockey.cachefly.net/Media/Select/U18/2011/071411_U18SelectRoster.pdf
For the hockey starved—tourney
http://2011wpfg.org/SportsEvents/SportsInformation/IceHockey/tabid/263/Default.aspx
burke officially part of chshl
http://www.chshl.net/varsity_standings
good to see them leave.
Burke only has 5 kids returning who are all little smurfs. If u thought they wetebad last year,wait till u see the product this year!
So if Burke has a game with Iona at Coney Island is that an over night trip for Burke? Or how about if they have a game with Fordham on Staten Island is that an over night trip?
if chshl steps up (as they’ve done in certain years in the past) and play the true “home’ice” card, is sport-o burke’s “home?” (if its true that ice time is closing..?)
Is the team that Pesce just made the one that represents the USA in international tourneys? The same team Shattenkirk captained before captaining the World Junior team? If so, my guess is we have a good shot at seing one of our own Section One players at the World junior tourney and the NHL. Pretty special.
On a related note, Rye advanced in the playoffs the last 2 seasons by beating teams with USA national players (2010- over SHI with Pesce- USA U18 team) (2011- over KPV with Santini- USA U 17 team).
Not sure about Burke at SOR. MW is going back to playing their games there after a 15-year abscence, though. The rumor I heard about Burke is that they are looking at the Palisades Mall.
burke to mall 45 mins
burke to abe stark in coney island (1 hour and 45 minutes no traffic)
right, an hour and 45 minutes with no traffic. Problem is and everyones knows this, theres always traffic heading anywhere in the metro area. So figure on almost double that travel time for an hour and a half game slot with no ice cuts and most of the catholic game slots are later at night too. Good luck
Those are tough travel logistics for Burke. I also don’t see them competing well against an IP, Fordham, Sea, Farrell and St. Anthonys.
Couldn’t they just have stayed in section 9 hockey with a regular season schedule of Monroe Woodbury (also purportedly diminished from last year), Newburgh and whatever lower level section 1 or chshl teams they could pick up? There only tough game would’ve been the NYS regional against section 1 champ.
Good luck, glad to see them try to keep the program going.
FOTG: Way to bring 6 degrees of seperation to Rye as alway. Beating Santini and Pesce just proves it is a team game. Like Messier in 96 and Gretsky in 98-99. There are better examples but given your age you can relate best to these I feel. Then again even Gilbert, Hatfield and Ratelle never won a cup. If you want to go current how about Jarome Iginla.
Nice accomplishment for Pesce without the Rye Reference.
FOTG that is the team Pesce is playing on. Great kid and a great family. he is playing Hitmen A this year. It will be a pleasure to watch him. We all have to remember something as well. he is a young 94. I believe his birthday is in December which means his draft year is May 2013, not next year. As you said, maybe one of our own…maybe!
Burke will struggle wherever they play. Newburgh will be a test for them this year. As for MW, it will be a very tough year for them. They will not be able to compete with any of the top section 1 teams. To many loses to graduation.
Congrats to Brett Pesce…nice accomplishment.
Saw him play at a very young age (8th grade or freshman…his first year of HS varsity hockey)
He never stopped hustling, working…played the game the right way.
Glad to see him reach such a high level team…maybe the highest
Since burke is officially part of the chshl, who will the sections division II champion have to play to qualify for states, And how will they determine if the game is home or away
surprise Pesce isn’t going to play in the ushl this season, if i remember correctly he got drafted
hockey- I have the same question. Maybe a state outbracket tourney for DII. Brings back memories of North’s epic bus trip through NYS a few year back.
If they do have an out-bracket tourney, hopefully it will be better organized than they were back in those days so that the week of missed school for a trip around the state won’t be necessary. The trick is trying to schedule three games in six days against teams from around the state. If the section championships are on a Sunday (as ours generally are) and the state quarterfinal is the following Saturday, you basically have to play the first round of the outbracket on Monday, the second round on Wednesday, the third on Friday, and the winner then has to travel on Saturday for the state quarterfinal.
One of the problems they will run into is that if you take the runner-up from each section to fill the out-bracket tourney, that is still only 7 teams, which means one section is going to have to get a bye in the tourney.
Here is what I would suggest. Section championships are on Saturday or Sunday depending on the section. Then on Monday, the runners up from neighboring sections play each other (5 vs. 6, 1 vs. 2, 7 vs. 10 and say we give 3 the bye in the first year since they have produced the state champs the last two years). This way everyone stays pretty local with no overnight trips and most likely no missed school (or at least they can attend in the morning). Then the kids go to school on Tuesday and on Wednesday 3 plays the 5/6 winner and the 1/2 winner plays the 7/10 winner. Not as local, but still doable on a day-trip (albeit a long one, especially if it is 1 vs. 10). Then on Friday, the two remaining teams travel to the rink of the team that will host the outbracket winner in the quarters (for argument’s sake, lets say Pelham), and play a neutral-site Friday night game at the Hutch with the winner playing Pelham on Saturday in the state quarters. It cuts out one extra bus-trip, and also allows the team winning the out-bracket a chance to get familiar with the rink they will be playing in on the following night.
Lohud- I think Section One hosted Section Nine last year. That means Section Nine should have hosted this year. So, doesn’t the winner of the outbracket host? Or would the state let Section One DII host 3 years in a row (Rye hosted Qburry in 2010 and Pelham hosted Burke in 2011)?
not sure why burke is doing this, willing to drive hours to get destroyed
unless they have transfers or incoming freshmen no one knows about..
anthonys, farrell, st.joe’s, iona and fordham will eat them alive
maybe marys and chaminade games will be manageable
holy cross went back down to B (as should be)
good to see mount not folding the program (yet)...still in there
st. francis is probably pissed they aren’t getting a chance to test out the A waters (won game 1 of a 3 game semi-finals series against stepinac last year, then lost the next two by a goal)
and st. pete’s is definitely pissed, they actually won the B
then again, both those programs are probably telling themselves what the burke staff SHOULD be doing…why make the move if we’re going to get crushed
why doesn’t burke play in that club league with all those dutchess schools?
Section 9 would be home this year based on the rotation, but as there is no section 9 D2 anymore, that wouldn’t be possible. I can’t imagine they would have the outbracket tourney champion host a quarterfinal game. While there isn’t really any seeding in the state tourney due to the inability to objectively decide who should be the higher seeds, I think everyone would be in agreement that the outbracket tourney winner (who themselves are a runner-up in their own section) should be a lower seed and therefore play a road game.
Now, being as how we only have seven sections with D2 champs, they may have to go back to the drawing board to create a new rotation for the tournament (to determine which section plays which and who is the home team over the next X number of years), so the current plan (which would have the same matchups as last year, with the home sections flip-flopped) may be scrapped. Or, if they want to keep with the current plan and just add the out-bracket then Section 1 would play the out-bracket champ and the following year, they can worry about instilling a new rotation. Since as I said earlier, I don’t see them giving essentially a “wild card” team home ice advantage, the only way to do this without disrupting all the other games would be to give section 1 the home game against the outbracket champ.
It’s a shame this had to happen this year, too. With Ice Time closing, maybe Section 9 would have rented out West Point for their double-header of state quarterfinal games and two weekends in a row we could have had the marquee matchups held there with our section championships and the state quarters between 1 & 9. Now with MW playing out of SOR, if Suffern wins the section, we could see the state game at SOR again this year, but with Suffern on the visiting bench and MW on the home side.
honestly the whole section 9 thing has been a sham for years and years. From Monroe one of the largest populated school in the state playing in d 2 a few years ago to them not even having any competition for a section champ. Every other section, other than Ithaca has to go through some sort of playoff games. Section 1 may play the most of any section. Last year while Suffern got a bye in the first round for having the best record the d 2 Pellam was seeded 6th or 7th and had to win 4 games? to get to the section championship, to play a team from 9 that had an awful team and regular season but the night before that regional had just as good of a chance to go to Utica as Pellam did. The sections that are short teams should be the ones inconvienenced not the teams that have a tougher road
So what do you suggest they do to rectify the situation? You can’t just say “the system stinks” and not come up with a way to improve it. Otherwise you’re just complaining about the weather.
You seem to be giving a pass to Ithaca who has no playoff system but chastising MW & Burke for not having one (even though MW does have to play Newbugh in the Section 9 championship every year). If there are no other schools for them to play against, then what are they supposed to do?
It must have been large enrollment MW’s decison in 2007 to play DII the year their loaded team (Himelson, Garnet, Mauriello, Monahan) was good enough to take DI. Some of those guys are playing NCAA DI now.
fair point Lohud. I knew about Ithaca but did not mention them. Without a lot experience in this sort of thing I am just basing my opinion on common sense fairness. I think that teams that do not have anyone to play and are just given a pass to the regional should be given some sort of harder road. Lets not paint MW as model citizens, they have had their issues against White Plains who had no other issues, most notably MW had a huge fight in the regionals, have never been challenged. I will say that one team fanofthegame points was legit. I just think its not the fault of the sections that are robust either. Mybe having them have a tougher road, or force them to play a game before entering regionals? Or letting Ithaca and Monroe and whoever else is alone play as one section after playing each other? That may encourage the sections with only one team to maybe try to build the sport in their area? A free pass is not fair, in any way shape or form.
MAybe in order to participate in “The State Tournament” you need to have at least 4 schools in a division. If you do not you cannot play for the State Championship.
Minimums- Takes too many Sections out of the tourney. Perennial DII power Queensbury only has 2 DII teams in their Section Two. Don’t think there are many DI or DII teams in Section 7. Section 4 has no DII teams and only one DI team. The only Sections with lots of DI and DII teams are Sections One (us), Three (Utica) , Five (Syracuse), Six (Buffalo) and Ten (North Country).
While Section One may have the numbers, DII in Section Three is difficult bracket every year.
The only way to go about it would really be to expand the state tournament, however there are a lot of obstacles to overcome if that were to happen. First and foremost is money. It costs a lot to put on a hockey game, especially down here where ice time is very expensive. Second is time. If you were to expand the state tournament, that means puching back the final four by a week (or forcing the sections to move up their championship games). Third is the logistics of putting together a state-wide tournament without forcing it to be completely regionally based like it is now.
NJ is a small state and they are able to put together a true state tourney because no team is more then two hours away from any other team in the state (and 95% of the time you are WAY closer than 2 hours from your opponent). So they take everyone in the state with a .500 record or better, seed them from 1 all the way down to however many teams they have, and play. The tournament is irregardless of what league you play in during the regular season, and the fact that the state is so small (and for the most part, no one in the southern half of the state has a hockey team), you can have an early round state game on a weeknight. Can you imagine a 1st round game on a Tuesday in a 32-team tournament where say North Rockland, a team who struggled to get to .500 this year and is the #31 seed has to travel to Williamsville North (The #2 seed) only to get creamated?
In D1, you have two options. First, as you mentioned, would be MW vs. Ithaca for a spot in the quarters and then a wildcard outbracket tourney between the six runners up (from sections 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, & 10) for the eighth slot. Otherwise, Ithaca would host a tournament against the runners up in sections 3, 5, & 6 while MW hosts one against the runners up in 1, 2, & 10 with the winners of those two tourneys getting the last two slots in the quarters (this would allow the “outbracket” to be more regional based an avoid overnight trips. Plus, it would allow MW & Ithaca to both make the states).
In D2, it’s a little more difficult because you have seven sections with teams and everyone has at least two. If you are going to have an outbracket tourney, someone needs a bye in that tourney which people will complain is unfair (especially since in the seven years it will take for each section to have a bye, the tournament format could easily change). The only way I can see that working is if you put the winners in Sections 1, 3, 5, 6, 7 & 10 in the quarters and take the two teams from section 2 and throw them in with the runners up from each of the other sections, giving you two four-team tournaments to determine the last two slots. It stinks for Section 2, but they are the smallest D2 section, so they have to put up with it like MW & Ithaca do. You would put one of the section 2 teams with sections 1, 7, & 10 and the other with 3, 5, & 6 so that Section 2 has just as much chance as anyone else at having two teams in the tourney. Problem is, I can’t see section 2 agreeing to that one.
Windup is, its an imperfect system, and no matter what they do, some teams will get hosed, some will get a free pass, and EVERYONE will find something to complain about.
FOTG. the only one playing D1 is hemilson. The others are playing club. Monahan was super freshman this year after 2 years of juniors. He Is playing dIII.
Congratulations to both Santini and Pesce dedicated hockey players with incredible talent, good luck boys.
Himelson is at Clarkson, right? And I saw Monohan playing for some DII team against Manhattanville at Playland last year.
Why not put all the rockland teams back into section 9 like it was in the 80’s
Because Section 9 is enormous and it would make no sense to do this for any sport other than hockey (and even that is debatable). Remember, you go for all sports or for none. In hockey, it would help Section 9 to add 5 more teams to their 2-team league, but it would hurt Rockland to pull them out of a section with 24 other teams ranging from teams at Suffern’s level like Mamk, Rye, Pelham, etc. to teams at NTZ’s level like Greeley, Ossining, SNS, etc.
While I would admit that the Hudson river makes the perfect geographical border between sections making it seem like an obvious rationale for Rockland to be a part of Section 9 (and probably the reason it originally was set up that way), the travel is way less being in section 1, even with the annoyance of the TZB and the toll that goes along with it. Think about the smaller schools like PR, Nyack, TZ, SV, Albertus, & Nanuet. It’s a lot easier for them to hop across the bridge to find in-section opponents like BH, Pelham, Rye, Westlake, HenHud, Eastchester, etc. who are similar-sized than to go to places like Roscoe or New Paltz or Saugerties or Liberty to play their in-section, similar-sized “rivals.”
When you look at the larger Rockland schools (Suffern, Ramapo, North Rockland, CN, & CS), it is a little easier since the larger Orange County schools are, for the most part, the ones closest to Rockland (MW, Warwick, Washingtonville, Middletown, Minisink, Newburgh, etc.), but there are still a few that are pretty far (Suffern HS to Kingston HS is about 1:30 on a bus).
You have to remember, in terms of hockey, section 9 is simply Orange County and only a small portion of it, which is right near the border of Rockland. In terms of every other sport, you would include Ulster & Sullivan Counties, which extends about 3/4 of the way to Binghamton. It would actually make more sense to put Dutchess County into Section 9 than Rockland if they were going to move one of them.
And there was serious discussion last last year about Dutches joining section 9. This had nothing to do with hockey, but the section 1 geographic league format and the inequity it caused in the Dutchess schools.
A typical Dutches league would be giant Arlington, Ketchem, and John Jay EF, along with small school Beacon and Lourdes. This format resulted in lopsided contests in all sports against the small schools.
It made sense for Dutches to join section 9. Arlington and the other big schools could face off against MW, Newburgh, Minisink, etc., while there were plenty of section 9 small schools for Beacon and Lourdes to play.
Of course this made sense for 9 of 10 sports, but the one sport that ended the talk was football, who did not want to leave section 1, and were not subject to the geo league format.
FOTG. You are correct, Clarkson and Western New England (D3).