Let the debate begin.
Hopefully, there isn’t much to haggle over. I spent a lot of hours over the last few weeks talking with people close to the game and switching names back and forth between first team and second team. A lot of thought goes into these teams.
Not a single blogger was consulted.
Click here to see the Westchester/Putnam selections.
Click here to see the Rockland selections.
Picking a player of the year in Rockland was easy. Kevin Norwin so obviously stood above the competition, even on a roster filled with standouts. On this side of the river, it was an impossible choice. Richie Prunesti had the best individual season. Matt Oliverio was a great story. In the end,I honestly couldn’t find anyone to argue the downside of picking somebody like Ryan McGee. And if you don’t understand the choice, you probably didn’t see him play much.
As for the first- and second-team picks, I rely on the input of people who see even more games than I do. These aren’t necessarily based on skill level. I also think it’s very important to weigh a player’s impact on his teammates and the kind of season his team put together.
159 Comments
Pesce was the best defensemen I saw all year. I understand McGee is a Sr. but to not even make Pesce first team? Absurd.
I understand I am bias because Richie is on my son’s team but how can he not receive player of the year? Ryan McGee is a fine player but without him White Plains is still a good team. Without Richie New Rochelle wins two games. We scored 115 goals this year and Prunesti had 90 points. He lead the league in scoring by almost 20 points! It is hard for me to understand how anybody could be more valuable then that.
Congrats to all the guys who made the list. Talent pool pretty deep this year. Tough choices to make. Many on the HM list were viable candidates for slots on the first or second teams. More than a few pretty talented players didn’t even make the HM list. Pretty short list compared to prior years.
Great job this year Mike. Thanks for keeping the blog going and giving our sport solid coverage throughout the season.
Although my son plays forward and I love watching the offensive push, I applaud the choices of a Dman for “player of the year” in both regions. Every team would love a puck moving, shut down, physical, but still able to jump in to the play and score defenseman. Both Norwin and McGee are those type of players. I blogged midseason (right after the WP vs. RTH game) that McGee should be West/Put player of the year. Then wavered at the end of the season based on the impressive stats Prunesti and Olivario accumulated. Olivario had better success than Prunesti against the better teams. But, some of those goals were scored late, after the outcome of the games were determined. McGee did it all for WP. Not an easy choice, but a good one.
You can pick whoever you would like but Richie Prunesti was the best player on the ice all season. When Prunesti played the “better teams” he had two and three guys on him the whole game yet still managed to get points. The real test is if you take McGee off White Plains they are still a good team. Take Prunesti away from New Ro and they are in the dumpster.
I like the selections. Congratulations to all those selected.
Obviously, the Westchester selections are much more difficult to determine.
On the Rockland side no major issues by me. The selections are much more easier. However, I felt North Rockland got a little bit slighted without a first team selection. In my opinion they were Rocklands next best team after Suffern.
I was very surprised to see all county Hockey team released today & to see to two of the top playersin area excluded from list. I know picking an All Star team is not easy & the paper depends on coaches from area for input. Rocco Miano has been one of better players in area for three years. His stats speak for themselves. Shaun Hanlon last weeks Con Ed award winner also has had a great year this year . These two definetly deserved to be at least on the honorable mention list if not on 1st or 2nd team. This season Stepinac team did not rise to the last two years heights of going to championship in CHSHL, but they were very competitive with a small roster. These two players were constantly doubled & still scored a lot of points. Both play for Mariners team that just competed for states with many of the area regular star players
Congrats to Rye’s “Twins” Paul Mundinger and Taka Katsuta making Westchester/ Putnam’s 2nd Team and Brian Powers for making Honorable Mention. Rye will surely miss their three talented Seniors.
Al, Although Rocklands second best team, The greatest team compliment is that NR was a team that was greater than the sum of their parts. Whom would you think deserved 1st team selection and why?
Agree on Rocco. Wasn’t he featured as a JN preseason “player to watch” in West/Put along with guys like Naclerio, Mundinger and Katsuta, who made the JN’s first two teams. But, West/Rock team hard to make. And, as Mike said above, some of it has to do with how a player lifts his team into contention.
How about a little skils comp:
Best hands/dangler- Miano, Katsuta, Olivario, Prunesti, Belger
Best wrist shot (accuracy, speed, quick release)- Prunesti, Miano, Olivario
Best slap shot- Norwin, Christiansen, McGee, Naclerio
Fastest skater (lap around the rink)- Both Pesces, Katsuta, Horowitz, Jaeger, Baker, McGee, Goetz
Quickest skater (red line to blue line with a lateral move thrown in)- Masullo, Mundinger, Lindh, Olivario
Best glove- Glaviano, Fatone
I am sure I missed some guys.
What I don’t understand is Mcgee didn’t even win MVP of his conference yet he wins JN player of the year?
Great picks! Choosing defensemen is gutsy, especially considering that, much of the time, one has to really watch a game to see their subtle yet crucial impact. Question: how do McGee and Norwin stack up against Prunesti, Oliverio, and other potential candidates, when you consider +/-, which I think is a better indicator than points?
Fan
I have to question the plus/minus stat. Best players in hs log alot of ice so they are on for most goals either way. 5th liners in blowouts often have better +/-.
How can Prunesti and others manage a Junior B schedule and a Varsity hockey schedule? Both involve a huge time commitment. Very impressive.
Congrats to all the players picked and in particular to Katsuda, Mundinger and Powers of Rye. Great career guys and good luck going forward.
i think stark has to be up there for best glove. have you ever seen him in warm ups on justin goetz
Have you ever seen Prunesti in the defensive zone ,he had 90 points and was on for opponets 60 goals, to be the best player you have to play defense first, Sorry Mr Prunesti, your son forgot how the game is played !!He is a fine young man off the ice which is more important
s,
I can agree with Mike D’s criteria for first and second team all league selection, as he stated:
....”for the first-and second-team picks, I rely on the input of people who see even more games than I do. These aren’t necessarily based on skill level. I also think it’s very important to weigh a player’s impact on his teammates and the kind of season his team put together.”
Using this criteria you can make a conclusive case that North Rockland’s senior captain, the best overall player on rockland county’s runner-up team should have been first team.
There is precedent for this. Only go back one year ago when a junior Kevin Norwin was all-state honorable mention. He still was only second team all county. A Suffern and North Rockland senior, McCarron and Meany, were named first team all-county defense, neither of who made all state.
stixx,
OK, it’s very clear that you have “STRONG ” ties to Prunestri and the New Rochelle program. Prunestri is a good player, but definitely not the best in the area. Maybe next year he’ll be considered the best player in WESTCHESTER, but for this year he was good not great but good. Your Miano’s, Cambria’s, Oliverio’s are better and than Pruestri. ANd that’s the truth. Everyone knows it except for you!
Mike alluded that JN thought Olivario and Prunesti were the top two forwards in West/Put. Hard to disagree. If Cambria had been more focused on HS hockey, he would have likely been a third choice, although he doesn’t seem to be the kind of player who, on his own, takes control of a HS game. Cambria’s game is better suited to fitting in at the higher level play. Miano also very skilled, but not currently playing at a fitness level that allows him to control a game. I think Olivario played with less support than did Prunesti. Mfoula and Umbro are pretty solid players. Scarsdale was very, very young. Olivario the only senior on the Raiders. He broke thru agianst the top teams, where Prunesti did not. Maybe that’s because Olivario is a considerably better skater than Prunesti. Prunesti has a better shot and that is saying something b/c Olivario has a good one. Would love to have both on my team, but if I had to chose, Olivario is my man.
TYLER STARK IS LEAVING SUFFERN NEXT SEASON, TO GO AND PLAY BACK AT ST. JOES
with stark gone next year who will step up for the mounties?
when did Oliverio brake out against the top teams when Prunesti played against the top teams MAMK WP SH/I twice and LP he had 7 goals out of the 8 goals the team scored and no one realizes he was shadowed and the teams best Dmen and top line were always out against him and just look at how much support he had i believe he had 90 points out of 115 goals thats like 80% of the teams points yeah real good support
914, how many games have you been to? 5th liners in blowouts? Rare…
fanotgame,
You’re absolutely 100% correct about Cambria and Oliverio. Would definitely take those two before Prunesti.
By the way I enjoy reading your individual blogs. I usually agree with your thought process. Only once in a while, I’ll disagee but usually you’re on the “Money”. I liked your analysis the other day about Conner, Eck and King. Agree with your thought process but I would lean towards King over Eck as the most “cluth Player”. But then again, I would take anyone of those three players on my team!
does anyone know why tyler stark is leaving suffern next year?
starks not leaving suffern that is a joke
Fanotgame JR-
I would wait until you hear something like that from an actual reliable source before believing its true. Take it with a grain of salt considering that some random person posted it, then followed up on his own comment six minutes later under a different name to try and lend his original comment some credibility. Probably the same guy whose been complaining all year that he left joes in thee first place.
i heard that rumor too but i dont think that is going to happen
What rumor?
Go play at St Joes? They were a minute from winning the state championship, why would he leave?
To———- Olivario: SHI (5G), WP (2G), Fordham (3G/2A), Rye (3G), Mamo (2G), SHI (G/A), Pelham (3G), WP (A) to Prunesti: Pelham (G), SHI (G), Mamo (2G), SHI (2G), WP (2G), L/P (2G). My guess is both guys were double and triple teamed at times. Both are super.
Prof- thanks. But, here are just a few Eck highlights. Sophomore year scores the lone Garnet goal to put Rye into the 3 OT classic with Pelham (eventual Frozen Four team) in Sectional semis. Junior year (when Rye went to Frozen Four) scores 2 in the last 90 seconds to eek out a 3-2 quarterfinal win over a strong Ossining team, scores 2 shorties 30 seconds apart to put away the Sectional final vs. Jay, scores the put away goal up at Salmon River in the regionals. Senior year scores the game winner over Pelham in Sectional finals. Then scores the first 2 goals in regionals vs. Thousand Island before Rye loses players to injury and then the game to eventual state finalist.
To jr- whoever is between the pipes for the Mounties next year has a chance to go undefeated and set shutout records.
Danny Broderick (WP) Brett Pesce (SHI) and Anthony Regan (Stepanic) made it to the championship game at the USA Hockey 16U AAA Nationals with the North Jersey Avalanche. They lost in the finals to Colorado Thunderbirds and took home the silver. Great run!
I just checked, according to Rob Schelling, Tyler Stark is coming back to Suffern next year. Sometimes you get people with no credibility posting out of the blue to stir things up.
Hey Hockey fan—- I do have strong ties to New Ro. But to say what you say shows you are clueless. Prunesti proved it this year leading the section in scoring by almost 20 points. He is also an excellent defensive fwd. He knows the game and is always around the puck. His own coach who has coached D1 players and has more credibility then you or I says he is a D1 player. Your opinion is fine it is a free country but give the kid the credit he is due. Even Mike said in the blog he had the best individual season. Cambria and Miano did not come close to the season he had. And besides out scoring oliverio he destryed him in two head to head matchups.
stixx,
If that’s the case then Cambria outscored Prunestri by a mile in juniors. And everyone on that team knows that Cambria was alot better then Pruenstri.
Your right hockey fan Prunesti is awful! He cant carry cambria’s skates. Even though Cambria skated with the top scorer in the league and Richie started on the third line and worked his way up. And I guess that wasn’t Prunesti skating at the Empire all-star game. And remember hot shot this was Cambria’s second year at Junior B and Prunesti’s first. A year makes a big difference. You just keep making your pathetic little statements of how Richie does not measure up and I will keep listening to people like Tozzo who actually know what they are talking about.
Next year’s pre season top 10: Suffern, Mamo, Iona, WP, Rye, RCDS, L/P, Pelham, Fordham, ETB.
Odds to make Utica:
DI:
Suffern- 1:2
Mamo- 4:1
WP- 15:1
L/P- 15:1
DII:
Rye- 2:1
Pelham- 3:1
SHI- 10:1
Scarsdale- 10:1
Rest of field are long shots.
Preseason All Section team:
Rix
Stark
Pesce
Christiansen
Santini
Lawrence
Fuchs
Basmajian
Prunesti
Jaeger
Baker
Caffrey
Belger
Hagan
Broderick
Redgate
McGivney
stixx,
How many excuses do you have. Let me ask you a question? If you compare Prunesti to past players who all had dreams of playing College Hockey, which of the following players do you actually think he’s better than? Because all these past players would skate circles around Prunesti. Like Willows, Connors, Sigona, Rui, King, Salt, Ruthberg, Shulman. All these players were super stars in high school hockey, who all scored big numbers. But the difference is that they constantly played against the top teams in their leagues not league 4 teams. As mentioned before, Pruestri is a good player. When he plays against better players, he’s OK. You keep saying that he scored 90 ponts in High School, But all the players mentioned above were top scorers also.BUT remember, he only scored around 37 playing in Junior B’s. Not Junior A’s. That’s OK in Junior B’s. If he scores 37 in Junior A’s then we’re talking.
Rui, quite incorrectly, was always crticized for not playing against the top teams in high school, as WP was in league 2 while he was there. I often read on this blog that he wasn’t as good as this one and that one, and that his club team (Applecore Jr. B, I think) was glorified midgets. Remember he only made Honorable Mention journal news.
Well, 3 years later he’s getting ready for D1 hockey, the only kid from that year of section 1 high school hockey who is doing that.
Prunesti will be fine and he is a much better skater than some are making him out to be. He does not have a “frenetic” skating style like a Martin St. Louis, who is fast and also looks like he is going fast. More of a smooth skater were it’s harder to tell he’s moving fast.
Hey Fan what do you have some Prunesti fetish? What USA Festival Hockey teams have these kids made? Prunesti has made three. Not part of a team? Prunesti was a top six fwd on Apple Core team that just won Nationals. And again Prunesti is the youngest player on his Apple Core team and he put up a point a game in his first year of Jr. Nothing to retire on but pretty good. I would like to see some of the players on your list and what they were doing at 16. Willows played Junior A AFTER HIGH SCHOOL Prunesti is going for that this year. Again I can go back and forth with an idiot like yourself all day. It is obvious you just cant give the kid his due. I’ll listen to Coaches that voted him Leauge MVP or Coach Tozzo who has Coached D1 PLAYERS then listen to another so called expert who wants to compare him to kids who are playing club hockey.
Prunesti is super. Best Section One HS jr, for sure (maybe Suffern fans argue for Jaeger). But, some of the seniors (Norwin, McGee and Olivario, for eg) were Prunesti’s peers in HS hockey this year. Doesn’t mean they will go as far as Prunesti on their respective hockey journeys; just that, after looking at all the info, for this given season of Section One HS hockey there were a few players that equalled or exceeded what Prunesti did. This doesn’t detract from Prunesti’s performance, it simply shows that there is a fair amount of talent in the Section.
Well said fanotgame—- We at New Rochelle all love and care about Richie. He is our own. We feel he was the best player in the section this year. We feel Mike Dougherty’s comment about Richie Having “the best individual season” was very accurate. We want the best for him but not at the expence of others. Let’s just say Richie is a great kid and great player and the section has alot of terrific players and may they all be blessed with good fortune and good luck in the future.
Tozzo cant even skate!
Al Bundy
Rui played junior A Applecore when he was in 11th grade..
started year on B team, but was moved up in oct or nov
no he didnt play junior A til his first PG year look on the empire site
he played Applecore A junior and senoir year in high school.. pg year was with the Rockets
ok go to the empire site under the 07-08 season yu see his senior year he played 29 games with the B team and he has an X next to his name meaning he got moved up to A so for the last time he got moved up to A at the end of his SENIOR YEAR
http://www.pointstreak.com/stats/pro/teamplayerstats.html?teamid=58703&seasonid=2145
this link might help
Hockey Mom, you still out there? I can’t believe you haven’t jumped in to settle this one yet.
(I think I just poked a hibernating bear with a stick!!!!)
Have heard that some of the projected stars for next season either (i) may have difficulty managing the travel/HS conflict, or (ii) are considering the prep route. Anyone know the plans for any of the following:
Pesce (SHI)- prep or Jr A?
Santini (KPV)- playing Midgets or thinking of Jr A?
Lawrence (WP)- jr A?
Basmajian (BH)- prep?
Prunesti- jr A?
Santini, Basmajian, Prunesti and Naclerio were all at Apple Core Tryouts last night And Rui did not play A until he was finished with High School.
Very interesting view points on who is the best player Cambria, Prunesti, Oliverio etc. It would seem to me that playing High School and Playing a demanding Jr. Schedule would qualify more then just playing H.S. That being said how do you compare? Prunesti had the best season out of anyone in High School and Made The Empire League All-Star team. Cambria made the same team and outscored Prunesti for the Apple Core Season including the game winner in nationals. Cambria a year older how much does that count? Everytime I see Prunesti he plays tough and hard. I just think it is very hard to make statements without giving it a whole lotta thought. But I absoulutly think that you have to give edge to players who play travel and H.S. (Cambria,Prunesti,McGee,Pesce) over ones that don’t. That is why Oliverio is not considered in my book. You can’t call him a better player when all he does is High School.
to puck matters- I thought the JN award was for HS play only. If it were for best hockey player in the area who happens to play some games for a local HS team, then I understand your point. But, someone who focuses entirely on HS hockey, like Olivario, might be more important to his HS team than someone who is a marginally stronger player but has to conduct the balancing act between HS and travel. The guy playing only HS hockey makes all the HS practices and games and is around all the time to mentor younger players. Probably gives up a shot at playing at the next level, but might help his HS team out a little more. I do applaud those that can manage both a HS and grueling jrs schedule.
I was not talking about the JN award just all the conversation of who is better. And I still say that the player who excels at HS and Jr. is the better all around player then someone who just plays H.S.
Flory was pretty clutch. goals in 8 straight playoff games, most of them as a freshman. And then his senior year he scored 13 goals and 5 assists in the 5 playoff games leading up to the state championship.
puck- i agree.
pelicans- Flory was very clutch in that playoff run his senior year. But, only scored once off Rye in their 3 tight games that year. Set up a few, though. Still think Eck even more clutch. In the 2009 Sectional final at the Hutch, it was Eck who broke the third period 1-1 tie in favor of the Garnets, not Flory doing it the other way around for the Pelicans, although Flory had a bunch of chances to do so.
pelicans- meant 2008 final at the Hutch.
Mike D. just posted on the lacrosse blog in reference to Yorktown, John Jay and Somers lacrosse games, that only one local event tops lacrosse right now, Rye-Harrison football…
C’mon…
Rye football is good, although not section champs this year, and Harrison football has been above average at best for a couple of years. This game is a big deal in these towns only.
However, that is not my issue, what about Mamo-Suffern hockey contests over the last 3 years, or Pelham-Rye hockey in the same period. IMO these games have been bigger and better than the lacrosse or football contests.
Flory was a pretty good player, I liked his interviews too.
Any word if he is still playing? What about mamone and emerson- liked them as player
Al- I love Rye hockey and would, for example, watch a Rye/Greeley offseason (spring or fall) hockey match before a Rye/Harrison Section One title football game. But, I have to admit the Rye/Harrison football game is a big deal in the two towns, and also draws a lot of other fans indifferent to the outcome, but just interested in the spectacle. I can see Mike’s point.
glee,
Flory (Pelham) played D2 Club hockey this year for RPI. He had a very good Freshman season with 14 goals and 11 assists. You might think that the amount of points that he had is low versus the 70+/per season he was scoring during his high school career, but 25 points is “ALOT”! Even King (Iona Prep), who plays club hockey for Boston College only had 27 points this season. If these two scoring machines can only get 25+ points in a season, it gives you an idea how Competitive Club Hockey really is in College.
We still have parents and players who think club hockey is weak. No way
Al,
I was referring to attendance figures, and hockey doesn’t compare because there is no place in this neck of the woods that even holds 1,200 fans. There was another big crowd at John Jay tonight.
It looks like Tuckahoe is no longer fielding a hockey program, so the ETB merger is now just Eastchester & Bronxville. Not sure how many Tuckahoe kids were actually on the team, but I don’t think it was many (I believe that was covered on a previous blog).
What this also does is removes 215 from the enrollment number for ETB next year taking them from 1205 to 990 meaning Eastchester-Bronxville (They will need a new acronym) will be a D2 team next season.
Ok LoHud…you poked I woke up! Honestly..I didn’t remember until I checked the link and from that, I guess he was moved up his senior year. Funny though because the person arguing this said not until his PG year and then post the link showing it was his senior yr! Hysterical! Thanks Al…I appreciate you remembering all the crap that was said and that he was only honorable mention, not to mention not making Empires his Junior year and the crap that came from that. What a joke that was! Rui missed something like 7 or 8 games his senior year and his stats were still in the top 3…if I remember correctly. As far as Richie…I saw it coming from the first time I saw him play. You only get crap talked about you if you are GOOD and Richie is GOOD! So I say….take it as a compliment. I am sure Richie will have a rewarding hockey carrer and I wish him the best! You’re skill is not decided by a bunch of anonymous bloggers! Congratulations to all especially Ryan…great job last year and this year. You helped keep the momentum going after Rui & Phil and kept building on the program’s success! GO WP!
Well, so it does not work so good anymore. Its amazing to me that they can just have the merger when it works (good available players in another school) and knock it out when it does not work. Why are they not having it? The original idea of mergers were to give children a chance to participate and grow interest in the schools to hopefully create new teams and grow the sport. Has any merger ever developed a new team? Or has it been just used to stock teams with good players to make them more competitive?
BTW Lohud…a bear! I might ROAR like one but I hope not thought as one! lol lol
to doesn’t work anymore- my guess is that the Tuckahoe school district didn’t want to chip in thier share of the expenses. Don’t think Eastchester and Bville wanted them to go away. Now, the remaining schools have to each foot more of the bill. EB should be a competitive DII school. A notch below Rye and Pelham, but right there with the other challengers SHI and Scarsdale.
As it stands now in the budget, no modified team in Clarkstown, 7, 8, 9 JV North/South team, 10, 11, 12 North/South Varsity team
Club hockey can be VERY copetitive. Just checked the ACHA D1 club hockey website and saw that Ruthberg had 20 goals & 25 assists for Rutgers this year. He is a freshman. Rutgers also made Nationals for the first time as a D1 team.
Club hockey is very competitive. SUNY Canton went from the NJCAA to ACHA D1 Club and also made it to the Nationals in their second year and was 15th in the state. Kevin Moro from C-North has been on the team for 3 years, Rich Willows was there last year. These teams are recruiting the Canadians and many have 23, 24 year old freshmen on the teams who have come from junior teams. It will soon be hard for any 18 year old freshman to make these teams too.
North/South-
I had heard clarkstown was having budget issues and was considering a merger, but if it is 7, 8, and 9, I can’t imagine they would go JV instead of modified. JV is typically a longer schedule and they would have to play in a league much more spread out than the rockland modified league so it would most likely cost them more. Plus, talent-wise, from what I saw of the two clarkstown modified teams last year, for competitiveness reasons, I think they would be better suited playing modified.
so are North/South combining next year, due to budget issues? did i read that right?
Nothing definite yet, but they apparently are considering it. I believe they had a public meeting regarding the budget for the district earlier this week and word on the street is that this was discussed at the meeting. I was not ther, so I can’t comment on it, but if anyone reading this was, I (and I believe others) would love to hear your take on it. Ned Bigby? Clarkstown s? Al Bundy? Any of you guys there?
Yes, it is in the budget as of now. Superintendent said she never knew how much ice time is. It looks like they will all practice at same time – 7, 8, 9th team and 10, 11, 12 team (North/South combined). It will be a very bad year for Clarkstown if budget stands as is now – many many people have been informed they no longer have a job.
How is rye ahead of pelham. They lost taka and mundinger two great players while pelham did not lose that much although Ive been told pelham might have trouble in night.
Sorry I meant net not night
This is kind of cool I thought. I forgot to post it but I was at the Hutch a while back and saw some kids playing a pick up game in open hockey. Being a New Ro parent I only recognized acouple of faces on the ice, but it was mamo kids vs pelham kids. Just goes to show spirit of the game.
I saw Mamone, hernandiez, a senior from this years team, and kid wearing rpi sweats so it must have been flory- filled in nicely compared to hs, has gotten pretty big in size, muscle wise.
I also saw naclerio brothers and a mamo dman, aswell as the current mamo goalie. I was impressed with the current tender. Moves well, not sure what year he is but as he gets bigger I look for him to be a threat in section 1.
I thought it was kind of cool to see teams that dukes it out for 4 years are able to come together and have a good laugh together. Really looked like they were having fun, and eith all this budget talk it’s a shame that kids might have this takenaway. Although hockey is usually repped for it’s awful sportmanship- I feel differntly and that hockeybuilds life-long relationships. During the gameyou wanna rip the kids helmet off- after the game you want to give him a hugs. That’s sportmanship. However, education is more important than athletics even though I feel much MUCH education comes from sports.
Theres is a bond within the high school ranks and its not just in ice hockey. Theres much to be said about playing with and against the schools and rivalries etc. Travel teams usually have different rosters every year. The Ice Hutch has a lot of those hockey sessions and some high level players attend. The midget or high school league at the Hutch is very competitive again this year with Rye Mamaroneck and some strong Long Island travel programs. They always have a very strong league for high school kids
Each North and South modified and varsity team had what looked to be at least 20 kids..thats 80 kids in the district playing hockey. Unlike what Lohud has said, I thought the modifieds for North and especially for South were pretty decent.
You’d hate to lose the tradition of the great North teams and South’s legacy is well established from highly competitive teams of the 80’s and 90’s.
But let’s face it, times are tough, there was a big TEA party in New City last week and extracurriculars are particularly vulnerable.
I hope it’s only for one year. I think that long term both high schools could have terrific hockey programs.
The sad part of a budget driven merger is that so many other costs of education have gotten out of control, but it’s easiest to cut sports programs that have existed for 20 plus years.
This isn’t a political or school blog, so I won’t go off on a tangent, but think of all the expected tax relief that the citizens of Clarkstown have NOT received from the opening of the Palisades Mall..
Al-
I wasn’t trying to say their modified teams were bad, there were some decent kids on each, but keep in mind if they went JV, they’d be playing all the NJ JV teams. These are teams that are full of 9th, 10th and even some 11th graders. While there were some good players on the Felix Festa teams, there where a lot that were very obviously beginners (most of which were probably the 7th graders). I think a combined Festa modified team would be better off playing modified teams like PR, NRock, and NTZ where the oldest kid is a 9th grader and probably a beginner himeself (since those teams would send a good 9th grader up to Varsity in a heartbeat) than a NJ team where they risk having a novice 7th grader out there against a 16-year old HS junior.
Lohud,
Got it. I see your point.
I don’t like the JV idea either. The New Jersey JV league is not very well “policed”. I’ve seen some pretty good varsity players, 11th graders, play in JV games in New Jersey (while simultaneously playing varsity) only because they are allowed to.
How will the merger of CN and CS impact the scheduling in League 4? Will the other Rockland teams have to play the “new” Clarkstown team twice or will it free up a game to play out of the county?
The North/South Merger is a done deal. It’s in the finalized budget. The are having one varsity and one Modified team. The proposal is supported by both schools as a way to save hockey. The varsity team will practice on its own as will the modified team. They will not share the ice. It is also not a one year thing. It will be around for at least 5 years. Clarkstown is in serious financial trouble.
The coach has not been selected yet.
rye could possibly get another lift again next year, a kid who lived in rye for a bit and moved to vermont is most likely moving back next year, from what I hear he is going to be a 6 foot shophmore who has played tier 1 hockey most of his life and has speant time with the u16 national development program
If this is true and if this supposed star has spent time with the U16 US NTDP program he would most definitely not waste his time, (by his standards), playing HS hockey.
i personally do not know if he is a star, i have never seen him play, i dont even remember his name, i am just goin by what i have heard and it appears likely that he will be coming back for the next school year.
It will be classic battle this year as it appears Rye will be very strong again despite losing the strong senior class and Pelham has quietly reloaded with serious depth and youth. It appears that Pelham will be talented and with no seniors rostered will be outstanding for quite a while. Rye has a returning goalie and enough returners to make this a battle. Pelham and Rye coaching staffs are extremely active and Pelhams staff was very involved with it youth bantam group which has to help
While it is interesting about all these guys who made the list and who dedicated hundreds of hours to play hockey and have played since they were mini mites – let’s put things into perspective. How many of them, and these are the best of the best that westchester and rockland has to offer, are going to play any more hockey – either College, Intramural teams, or club teams. Yes, they are good when compared to themselves – but are they any good compared to the rest of the country? They way you read these blogs and what the parents and visitors here say, you would think that at least a few of them have been recruited to play DI or DIII hockey at some colleges. I have not heard, but how many, and who is continuing on with there hockey carrers against other players outside of our little community?
BJB
Although its spring hockey there was an awesome game a 6 to 6 tie between the Hurricanes and the Stars from the Island. The Hurricanes have serious talent, Pesce, Luciano, Broderick and some talent from all around the county. The game was back and forth and very entertaining at the Ice hutch
Just heard that Prunesti and Santini made the Apple Core Jr. A team. Can anyone confirm this?
With the North/South merger and Tuckahoe electing not to be part of ETB, you have 12 DI teams and 16 DII teams in Section One. If you look at it statewide, there are lots more schools below the 1100 enrollment line than above it. If, due to the economy, teams continue to merge and if not enuf traditional powers elect to play up, you could easily have 2/3 of the State playing DII.
To Pelham fan and hockey fan- I give Rye the edge because they have the better goaltender. This is the most important position on the ice. Next season, Rix is probably one of the two top goalies in the section (along with Stark) and has a very good shot at All State honors. Rye returns all their Dmen and 2 of their 3 forward lines. Returning Garnet forwards will have to step up and be the new scorers that replace the high scoring graduating seniors, just like after All Staters Eck and Rogers graduated in 2008. The Garnets return forward talent and depth. Very similar to Pelham’s returning forwards. Without the new kid, I give Rye a slight advantage, with him, I say they are clear favorites. Either way, the games should be good battles. I hope the coaches fit in a home and home and that the teams meet in West Point.
North/South-
I don’t think it is a done deal yet. It may be in the most recent version of the budget proposal, but that still has yet to be approved. According to the reports on the CCSD website and the Journal News, the board of education will be meeting to vote on the newest budget proposal this Thursday and if they apporve it, the public votes on it in May.
If there are any North & South parents reading this who are opposed to the merger, now is the time to voice your opinion (loudly) to the school board. Also, if there are any Clarkstown parents reading this who are not opposed to it, keep this in mind. This past season there were 17 juniors & 9 sophomores between the two schools, meaning that if they all choose to play hockey again next year, there will be 26 juniors/seniors in 2010-11. A sophomore (and a junior for that matter) cannot play modified, meaning that if there is no intermediate option, a lot of your kids (and their friends) will be cut from the team with no where else to play. When you add in that there were 5 freshmen on the teams last year, you are up to 31 (Two of which are the younger Myers & the younger Chase who were two of South’s top five scorers this year and pretty much would have to be on the team) and a third of the returning varsity players will now need to be cut from the team with no where else to play scholastically. When you add in the 9th graders who were on the two modified teams this year and hoped to make Varsity as a sophomore in 2010-11, you can figure that half of the kids in the two high schools who play hockey will be cut from Varsity with nowhere to play since they won’t be eligible for modified. And pretty much any freshman will have to be on the modified team regardless of how good they are.
I know money is tight, but this is asinine. You add programs when you have enough kids in the high school to field two full-rostered teams. You don’t cut a program when you have that much interest in it. They really should try to find a way to keep both teams. The two programs and their parent/sbooster clubs need to come up with ways (fund-raisers, etc.) to raise money for the teams to help alleviate the costs to the CCSD. Then maybe they will listen. And some angry parents making a stink to the school board wouldn’t hurt either.
The angry parents have already spoken at the last meeting. Look – 132 part-time teacher assistants got the pink slip last week. Clerical and teachers have also been told. We have to put things in perspective here. These are real people (most live in Clarkstown) who will now be unemployed. My son played hockey on North but if I had to chose between combining ice hockey and a huge amount of people being laid off,the choice would be a no brainer. But, as a parent, I would have been willing to fund the team’s expenses (like Tappan Zee used to do) and that would probably mean most of the expenses (more ice time, etc.).
fanotgame-
That may be the plan (2/3 of the state below the line). I know a lot of the upstate areas where the distrcits are smaller and Rye would be consdiered an average to above average-sized school complain about facing schools with 1000 kids in the playoffs. If the line is at 1100 and 2/3 of the schools fall below it, this may be the first step (whether planned or not) towards the creation of a D3. If we count North & South as two teams (assuming no new teams joined or left the state between last year and this year and no D2 teams are playing up), the line at 1100 puts 49 teams in D1 leaving 82 teams in D2. If you draw another line at 700, that would leave 40 teams in D2 and 42 in D3. If you want to account for teams playing up, you could move the lines up to 1200 and 800 which would give you 41-45-45 so a couple of teams can play up and keep everything relatively even.
Again, I have no idea if this ever entered anyone’s mind, but I wouldn’t be shocked if that is the eventual outcome. Of course it wouldn’t happen until the economy turns around since it would require more money spent by the state to put on the tournaments (an extra set of quarterfinals, an extra day’s rental of the Aud for the semi-final games, officials for all of these games, and travel expenses for an additional four teams to go to Utica in March), but we could eventually see it.
Yes it is true Prunesti & Santini made Jr. A at Apple Core. Joe Naclerio, Brett Jackson from Mamo, Nick Belgar from Lakeland, Rob Dorgan from Ossining and Graig Halpin from Irvington all made Jr. B. A fine showing from our Westchester Boys.
Good for those guys. Bad for New Ro and KPV. Not sure you can do Jr A and HS. I assume Cambria also made Jr A Apple Core? Belger should be able to manage the HS conflict, like he did last year with his Brewster Jr B commitment. Any news on whether Pesce staying at SHI?
I understand that there are a ton of jobs within the district at stake, but I think with some creative fundraising and alternate solutions, you could run the two teams for a similar amount to what the district is paying for one team.
If you look at what they are budgeting for the merged varsity program for 2010-11, and were able to come up with a way for them to run two teams for the same amount of money, they would be hard-pressed to say no. It’s a tall task, but it can be done. It costs roughly $30,000 between ice time, officials, security at games, etc. to run a season with 2-3 practices per week. If the district were to say that they are only contributing $30,000 between the two teams, meaning the players/parents needed to come up with the other $30,000 it can be done.
For starters, start charging admission at the games. At $5 a head and roughly 100 people at each game (10 home games for each school), you are 1/3 of the way there. If each parent kicks in $300 apiece, with 40 rostered kids between the two schools, that’s another $12,000. Now you are $8000 short and haven’t even done a single fund-raiser. It can be done, it’s just a matter of how willing all the folks involved are to do it.
I know the jobs lost by the 100+ employees of the CCSD and the educational programs being cut are more important than the hockey teams, but if the district budgets a certain amount for one team, and you can strecth that budget into two teams for the same amount of money, I say do it, and give all 40+ hockey players between the two high schools a chance to wear their school colors.
There seems to be some holes in this VT/Rye kid story. There is no US NTDP U 16 program. There are Boys Select 14,15,16, 17 festivals which include a ton of kids. There have been a number of Section 1 kids who have participated in the various camps. And Rye does not allow kids to miss for travel. So it could turn out to be a non-event.
To fanotgame how can you give rye the edge in the pelham rye game mundinger and taka had all three goals assissted by each other also last year and they still tied. Pelham lost two forwards that combined to have 4 goals last year. The goaltending is a concern but witz always has solid defensive teams that will be able to shield the young goalies of pelham
Lohud,
The lack of comments on the North/South merger probably speaks to the indifference about combining the 2 teams. If it’s in the revised budget it’s probably going to stay there. Any further revisons to the budget will probably have only more cuts.
What strikes me most is what has happened to greater Clarkstown hockey over the last couple of years?
Flasback about 10 years ago:
– North was on the verge of becomong a state power.
– South was consistently a solid league 2 type of team.
– Nyack HS took Rye High School (a section finalist that year) to overtime in a playoff game before losing.
– A group of Nanuet HS parents had petitioned there BOE for a hockey program.
On top of all this good news,
– a brand new rink was being opened in Clarkstown.
– a youth travel program was being formed.
Now in 2010, well…
Pelham fan- I don’t expect blowouts, and a Pelham win would not come as a complete surprise. But, looking at the two teams right now, I give Rye the edge. I see the Rye skaters similar to the Pelican skaters. I think Rye’s top forwards are better than you think. Match up well with Riley and Macinnis. Both teams have a lot of depth at forward and defense. Both have young players (currently 8th and 9th graders) that could blossem next year. The difference is between the pipes. I am sure Pelham’s goalie will be just fine. But Rix is a big, agile goalie who has a good shot at an All State season. Should be fun.
I have a feeling that it will get through with the budget cuts as a merged team and as soon as juniors & seniors who have been on the Varsity team for a year or two already start getting cut come November, some parents will have a fit and all H-E-Double Hockey Sticks will break loose.
to Rink Rat- All I have heard is heresay about the new Rye kid. I heard he played varsity as a freshman at Vermont Academy and has had some national recognition when grouped with others in his birth year (probably to your point, one or more age group festivals). Heard he is a big kid for his age (needs to be to play prep varsity as a freshman). But, your last thought rings true. If he wants to play high level travel during the HS season, he will have a hard time managing the Rye coach’s position on missing HS games and practices.
All due respect to one of the best posters FOTG. I believe if Pelham made it to Rye in the playoffs I would have given the slight edge to Pelham even with the two high scoring seniors. I watched the Pelhan Rye game at Playland earlier in the year and Pelhans defense stifled Rye. The game was a tie but it clearly looked as if Pelham had the better of the play. Fast forward to next season in which Rye loses two superstar scoring mschines. Pelham virtually returns all but the goaltender. I would say Pelham looks like they are in good shape. Whats interesting is the way the teams played common opponents. While Rye slipped by Queensbury early on Pelham got beat up. Rye lost to Glens Falls and Pelham tied Glens Falls. Both played CortlandHomer and Pelham shut them out while Rye tied them. Rye and Pelham were closer than it looked last season and it appears Pelham has lost far less than Rye has lost to graduation. Time will tell.
To Pelham/Rye- I can understand how pelican fans feel their team has the edge. It is only natural to see the best in the team you root for. They will be close, low scoring “grinder” games for sure. The games between these two teams usually are. Coming into next season, neither team has a proven, top flight sniper. Pelham’s top 5 returning goal scorers combined for 38 goals, the same number that Rye’s top 5 returning goal scorers combined for. Both teams’ top returning goal scorer had 14. The two teams played very similar schedules last year. Maybe one or both teams will develop one or more true snipers. Looking forward to the matches next season. Still think the Garnets hoist the trophy (for the 4th time in 5 years and 17th overall) at West Point next February after a hard fought 2 goal (EN) win over Pelham. You are right about one thing: Only time will tell.
Don’t forget that Eastchester/Bronxville will now be D2 and should be considered a top contender for section title.
Al- I agree. Have EB in a group with Scarsdale and, if Pesce stays, SHI nipping at the heels of the two DII favorites. ETB beat Pelham by a goal last year. Rye manhandled ETB in a scrimmage, but those don’t count.
FOTG / Al-
I would say that Eastchester/Bronxville will have the most firepower of any DII team, with their top five returning scorers (If you want to go that route) having 65 goals . Watch their top two, they can flat out play. But, their goaltending will be weak, and without a strong player between the pipes, I can’t see them beating either Rye or Pelham in an intense, hard-fought game. I agree with FOTG that Rix will be the difference between Rye/Pelham and I see another sectional championship for Rye in the future.
You cannot count that as ETB played a much easier schedule than Rye and certainly Pelham. The EB group will not to kill the caution to the wind hockey to become serious. Rye and certainly Pelham have outstanding defense and defensive teams EB does not.
Fanotgame all I’m saying is pelham and rye tied last year and rye lost more than pelham so how are they going to beat them
my guess is that many in clarkstown are indifferent about north/south combining – there has been talk for years about combining. and actually, from a competitive standpoint, both teams are losing lots of key seniors to graduation this year, and both probably would have struggled next year, so combining actually benefits both from a competitive standpoint.
despite what many believe, there really isn’t a north/south rivlary anymore. they already have combined clarkstown teams for skiiing, swiming, gymnastics, and i believe another sport. many of the hockey players have played on the same travel teams for years, so while it may be awkward at first, my guess is that it will be widely accepted by both parents and players, and hopefully this newly formed clarkstown team can be a power hockey team for years to come.
to say pelham would have beaten Rye in the playoffs is laughable. pelham played one of their best games of the year and scored a couple of garbage goals to squeak out a tie against a flat rye team who had an off game. rye then thouroughly outplayed and beat a team that pelham cudnt muster a goal against in the quarterfinals. i’m sorry that pelham couldnt add to their incredible amount of section final APEARANCES. just so you know all that matters is the championship. section championships: Rye:16 Pelham:4 o and i forgot to mention 3 out of the last 4 for Rye thats almost as much as pelhams history in only 4 years
and they will probably tie pelham’s history of championships in only 5 years next year after celebrating on the ice at west point once again.
I wonder how many of those championships would hold legitimate if investigated
Pelham and Rye played to a tie at Playland, and you say Rye was flat? Good excuse, but keep in mind Pelham had just played Mamaroneck the night before, and played Suffern two days ealrier. I would not count anything in the 90`s thats too far back. With your comment about APPEARANCES, the reason that is significant is most of those sectional final appearances came when all the other schools except Suffern were D II. So having to come through Mamaroneck, White Plains, both Clarkstowns New Rochelle and the like makes appearances a pretty big feat and much tougher than it is in D II today
It is actually getting tougher in DII. Perennial favorites Rye and Pelham’s closest challengers next season should be DII newcomers EB, SHI and Scarsdale. None of those 3 teams were DII just 2 seasons ago. After the top 4 DII schools (Sufferen, Mamo, WP and L/P) there is a pretty big gap where as many as 6 or 7 DII teams would rank ahead of the #5 DI school.
Love to see the Rye/Pelham rivalry building. Both teams realize that this coming season the Section One winner likely hosts Burke Catholic for the right to skate in the Frozen Four. Burke a much, much easier opponent than last year’s regional opponent-state finalist Qburry. Burke imploded against St Lawrence losing 7-3 at home and then Qburry manhandled St lawrence 5-0 at Utica. Whoever comes out of West Point with the trophy gets to host a big time game at their place and probably takes a bus trip to the Aud.
Rye forwards will find a way to fill the net. Just 2 seasons ago, after All Staters Jordan Eck and Marshall Rogers graduated, many on this blog said Rye would struggle to score in the coming seasons. The following year, the Garnets came up with a tandem that combined for 90 points playing a Power League schedule and then over 120 points this past Season. The new guys always step up when it is “their turn”.
Regarding Clarkstown Merger, Would have loved to have had the talent this year on a combined team, as it would have made for a much more competitive team, however, understood that many kids who want to play hockey, would not have made team. Not sure what talent level will be like in coming years, but it will limit participation drastically. Why not allow parents to have option of funding budget differential? Don’t some programs(suffern?) get some amount of funding from parents?
clarkstown s-
Yes, there are teams that get funding from the parents. You mentioned Suffern and they are a model of this. For starters, each kids’ parents pay a certain amount per season for them to play. Not sure what that amount is now, but I would guess it is in the $500-$600 range. Next you have admission at the games. By pulling out of SOR this past season, the Clarkstown teams gave that up (granted, they already played half their games at the mall anyway, but the games they did play at SOR drew some money). Granted, Suffern draws a bigger crowd than the Clarkstwon schools, but every bit helps. Half of the gate goes towards your ice bill and the other half to the rink. Meaning that, in Suffern’s case, a decent-sized crowd at a game could cover a week’s worth of practice ice. Next you have the yearbook. If you are ever at SOR, pick up a Suffern yearbook. Flip past the first 20 pages, which is where the photos, stats, and other Suffern Hockey info is located and you’ll find the next 50 pages are ads. The kids go out and sell ads in the yearbook like they were peddling girl scout cookies and they do a great job. If I had those kids selling ads on the Section 1 website for me, I could build an addition on my house!! All that money goes towards paying for the ice time and other team expenses. Then you have things like the 50/50 raffles, the merchandise table when you walk into the rink for a game, an annual golf-outing, etc. and you have a very well-funded program that does not need to rely as much on the school for money.
If the people in Clarkstown are passionate about keeping two teams, they need to consider doing some of this. I know you have a son who plays for South. Do they currently make the parents kick in any money at all towards the program?
Also, on the topic of struggling finances killing teams, it looks like our area may very well lose another team this year. The Fort Montgomrey school district in Highland Falls (O’Neill High School) just approved an 18% tax hike for next year due to all the state aid they were getting being cut. They are sending a group of protesters up to Albany today to try and fight this, but assuming that effort falls flat like most protests do, and the budget goes through, according to what I heard on News12 last night, they will be cutting out all extracurricular sports in the district. Considering how expensive hockey is and the fact that their team has never been strong in the 20 years they’ve had a hockey program, even if they only cut half the sports, I would imagine Hockey would certainly be on the chopping block.
Parents at CS pay for jerseys. Additionally, never understood needing a bus to and from the mall, for every practice(big expense?) Fortunately/Unfortunately, my sons rewarding HS career came to an end this year, but I do recognize the contribution that modified and varsity hockey made to his experience, and what would be lost to others less fortunate.
Lohud, if you are right about O’Neil, Burke Catholic is into the regional round simply by fielding a team. Just like Ithaca in DI. Means you win just 1 post season game and you have a slot in Utica. Doesn’t seem right. Make Burke play in Section One DII playoffs and Ithaca in Section 3 DI playoffs and then have a state outbracket tourney for both divisions.
O’Neil could easily move there hockey program to the “club” hockey league that most of Orange County High Schools play in. Of course this league is funded outside the school budget.
It’s sad that programs that have existed for 20 plus years and have survived other economic downturns (I’m old enough to remember bad recessions and unemployment from the 80’s and high inflationary times from the 70’s) are getting cut today. What is different in schools budgets today that they get rid of sports teams whole cloth?
What would be great with the state tournament, which would take care of the sections with too few teams to field a meaningful section tourney is this (Keep in mind, this is only a concept dreamed up by me on a slow day at the office):
Lets look at D1 first. We have 8 Section champs in the tourney right now (Sections 1,2,3,4,5,6,9,10) however Section 4 has only one team (Ithaca) and Section 9 has two (MW & Newburgh, but the section champ is never in question). Why don’t we take the champions of the six larger sections and put them into the quarterfinals automatically and then have two mini-tournaments for the other two slots. So you would take MW along with the runners up in sections 1, 2, & 10 and have them play a four-team tourney over two days (That MW gets to host since they are technically the section champs and everyone else is a runner up). The winner gets the 7th quarterfinal slot. Then you take Ithaca along with the runners up from sections 3, 5, & 6 and do the same (again, Ithaca gets to host the tourney since they are the section champs and everyone else is a runner up) and that team gets the 8th quarterfinal slot. This solves two problems. The “automatic” bid to the state quarterfinals for a team that may not deserve it, and allowing sections where they are stacked with talent (like section 6 who had four D1 teams in the rankings all year) to send multiple teams to the state tourney.
In D2 you can do the same thing by using the Section 9 champ again, but instead of section 4 (since there are no D2 teams there, so there was never a section 4 rep in the D2 tourney to begin with) you can use Section 7 since there are no D1 schools there and it is generally a weak section every year. So then the two mini tournaments would be Burke Catholic hosting the runners up in sections 1, 2, & 3 with the Section 7 champ hosting the runners up in sections 10, 5, & 6.
This could all be done without extending the state tournament past that second weekend in March where they always have it. They would just have to mandate that the section tournaments are done a few days earlier than usual so that the “mini-tournaments” can be played the weekend before the quarterfinals.
Lohud
You’ve made it pretty clear that you are very well versed on the topic of hockey, not only in section one but also around the state. You are around the game a lot, and you do a great job with the website.
I do however, think you need to be careful when you blindly throw numbers around like you often seem to do. You mentioned something about a hockey team costing roughly $30,000 to field, and then you furthered your thought with a convoluted mathematical equation that ended with a figure around 8,000, that just needed to be fund raised. The cost for varsity ice time, as stated at the CCSD budget meeting, was $75,000. That figure was just for ice time, not security, not refs, not coaches’ salaries, not jerseys, not socks, not transportation…..just ice. To field a team is much more money than what you think. In addition, both teams at Clarkstown have very generous parent clubs, who fees are in the $300-400 range. It’s not as if the parents aren’t already paying.
You also mentioned Suffern as a model for fundraising. It’s easy to be a model when you get upwards of 300 people at your games. Clarkstown simply does not get that….yet. The Suffern parents do pay money, and I would wager it exceeds the $500 dollar figure you put out. However, that money is used to fund busses and hotels for tournaments up north…..the same way Clarkstown uses the money. Finally all the money Suffern has left over is used to fill out their practice schedule. The district pays a certain amount towards Ice time and the extra money is used to purchase additional ice, in order to practice 5 days a week.
Merging the teams in Clarkstown is not the best solution, but the alternative was worse. The proposal was to have both varsity teams practice on the same ice at the same time, and eliminate both modified programs. Under the current proposal, the varsity will get a full sheet of ice and there will continue to be a modified program giving opportunity to younger players to get involved in the sport and represent their school.
North/South
That number is shocking to me. Ice Time is around $500 per hour at most rinks in section 1. So, if we do our math 75,000/500= 150 hours. No way that a team uses 150 hours of ice time in a season. 10 home games would take up 20 hours of that Ice time, and then there are 130 hours left for practice? Even for two teams this would be an absurd amount of icetime. Something said in that meeting doesn’t seem right. LoHud’s figure of $30,000 seems more accurate to me.
$75,000 would be 200 hours of ice. That would be enough to cover both varsity and both modified teams. 10 home varsity slots at 2 hours each is 20 hours. Six home modified slots at 1.5 hours each is nine hours. Double that since there were two varsity and two modified teams and you only need 68 hours for games leaving 132 hours for practice throughout the season. Over the course of three and a half months, that means 38 hours per month or roughly 9 hours per week to split between them the modified teams each have one solo practice and one where they share the ice each week and each varsity gets three hours of practice. My figures were taking what it would cost to field one varsity team and giving each team half then fundraising for the rest. I know you said the parents already chip in 300-400 but according to clarkstown s’s post, the parents only pay for the jerseys.
I naver claimed to know exact numbers for anything in my posts, but 30K for a team seems to be the ballpark number for every budget I have seen. Using that number (and assuming that is what CCSD is willing to pay for hockey) that means 30K in money raised means you can afford a second team.
I would hope the combined teams are only for one year or two to help alleviate a very real budget crises in the Clarkstown district.
Afterall, these were two very good section 1 programs with a lot of student participation. After perhaps baseball, the North and South hockey teams were the most respected boys sports teams in the district.
The bad part of the merger, alot of students who would’ve been on teams, will not be on teams. As an aside, South featured 3 female hockey players last year in support roles. I can imagine the combined team will primarily be made up of current travel players (there are more than enough in the district) and they will lose the beginner or casual player that the separate rosters could carry.
Even the great North teams of the last ten years always had kids on the roster that were not travel players. Although they didn’t play much they supported the team and that is an important part of any team.
for what it is worth, our HS program’s ice in Brewster last season was about $25K. This was for some pre-season slots, game slots and practice twice a week, one of those weekly slots was shared with another team. We had modified ice as well, but much less time. On top of that amount, there is a district cost for bussing, which some insist on for safety reasons. Oftern, this is as much as the ice. Add on the costs of refs, coaches, uniforms, game security etc…a typical hockey budget for one varsity team and modified program (assuming transportation is included) is often in the area of $75K. This cost figured on a per student basis in light of participation, and relative to the costs of other sports, is a hard pill for many districts to justify in this climate. Many parents in several school districts subsidize their programs with significant contributions and I suspect more will have to and with more of a contribution.
Folks, the budget pressures on schools across the country are very significant and very real. Teachers and academic resources are being cut. Our school district is at risk of losing ALL modified, freshman and JV sports along with cuts to instructional resources. This isn’t about the cost of ice time. It’s about a real funding crisis in our schools. Albany has pulled out the rug on school funding because they don’t have the money. Hard decisions are going to happen and programs will be impacted for a very long time.
As my son was on the North team a few years ago, we did not pay for our jerseys unless the seniors wanted to buy them at the end of the year. But we did fundraise and also pay a fee of about $300, which was used for tournaments and the outbracket. The Superintendent said she never knew how much ice team was. For $30,000 of ice time, two TA’s can be saved. My son was on the great North teams of the past and there were a few kids that didn’t make the team who were on travel teams. There was 1 or 2 in later years that didn’t play travel who were on the team but never played. It is sad that it comes to this but there are many many people who will be losing their jobs in Clarkstown this year. And we need to put these things in perspective. Our district is in big trouble and it will be a long long time before it bounces back.
North hockey-
I’m not saying that the hockey team needs to be prioritized over people’s jobs. What I am saying is that the CCSD is willing to foot the bill for a certain number of dollars (whatever that number may be) to field one Varsity hockey team in 2010-11 even with all of their financial troubles. Logic would dictate that if you had twice that amount (whatever it may be), you could field two of them. If the students & parents could raise that amount, then they could field two teams with the money the district was willing to pay for one. It’s kind of like offering to give your kid $2000 to buy a used car when he turns 16, and he knows that if he can come up with another $2000, he can get a better car and it doesn’t cost you anything extra.
As for the travel players on those great teams getting cut, I understand what you are saying, but it is not 100% apples-to-apples to make that comparison. That is a couple of kids not good enough to make the cut, so they got cut. Nothing worng with that, not everybody needs to make the team when you have a surplus of talent. The difference here is that you have 31 returning Varsity players and probably another half-dozen or so kids who played on the modified teams as freshmen last year. That means you have roughly 40 kids grades 10-12 trying out for Varsity next year (31 of which were already on the team previously) and half of them would be cut. If there was an intermediate level between modified & Varisty (such as a JV team) where these kids could then play while they pick up some seasoning to hopefully be able to make Varsity the following year, that would be one thing, but there is not and 10th graders are not eligible to play modified. So there is a large group of kids that will be cut from the team this year without any other alternative. Unfortunately, even if they did institute a JV team to rectify this problem, it wouldn’t do much good since I believe you ruin your JV-eligibility by playing Varsity much like the 7th-grade goalie for White Plains cannot go back to playing Modified even if he wanted to because he is no longer eligible after practicing and playing with the Varsity team this year.
Lohud,
Whats your best guess at the Rockland conference scheduling, now with only 5 teams:
Suffern
North Rockland
Clarkstown
Pearl River
Nyack/Tappan Zee
Will they still just play one required conference game? Maybe two required games? Will they add a team like SH/I that plays out of SOR?
When will this stuff be decided?
Al-
I don’t think there is much wiggle-room on anything except the number of games each team is playing against the other. BOCES doesn’t seem to care about where a team plays their home games which is why something as simple as keeping Ossining & Mt. Pleasant in the same conference since they are the only two teams that play out of WSA could not happen. BOCES aligned all of the schools in the section into four conferences and insisted that they stay like that for every sport. Even when an alternate geographical alignment for hockey was presented to them last spring based on rink location rather than school location, it was shot down. So that being the case, I wouldn’t hold out hopes for SHI to be moved to Conference IV since they play out of SOR & The Palisades, even if it means Conference IV has 5 teams while all the others have 7 or 8.
As for the number of games, I think it will still stay with one game apiece in Conference IV (as long as the conferences all have a choice as they did last year). Even a merged Clarkstown team will have a hard time beating the Mounties who will be most likely better next year than they were this year. North Rockland, NTZ, and PR will see the same lopsided games that they witnessed this year, and I don’t think any of them (or Suffern for that matter) sees the need to do that twice a year. I’m sure the four remaining Rockland teams will schedule home-and-homes with each other, but I am guessing only one will count for the league standings as it did this season.
LoHud,
Can’t the players who get cut from your team just play travel and work hard so they can make the hs team next year? At least they could play with their travel team and work on improving their skills for next season. That way they wouldn’t fall into the bottom half that gets cut.
Lohud….
You make a good point. If CCSD is willing to pay for one then you simply need to raise the money for the other. On paper that seems good. How would you manage the bussing for that second team? Would the parents then write an additional check to the district for the transportation of that second team? How about the coaches’ salaries? Would the parents pay those cash? What about insurance, if it’s not sponsored by the district, they would need an insurance policy. Not all players are USA hockey.
Your analogy is a good one. If you give your kid $2000.00 for a car, and he wants a better car he finds one for 4000.00 He asks his grandmother, cashes in bonds and gets the additional 2000.00 to buy the car. Now he’s driving around in the great car….until he finds out the car needs brakes or a new exhaust system. Who pays for that? As parents, you do ? Lesson learned, don’t let your kid sink all of his money in to one basket.
The district has to budget for any programs that it sponsors. The board will not allow one team to be budgeted and the other will hang out in the wind until the parents get moving on fundraising. If the money comes great, if it doesn’t then the district is stuck with the bill. That is not an agreement the district is willing to get involved in.
If those parents want another team, they can just as easily create an independent midget team. Plus there is none of those other worries.
I think if you asked those players, or there families, are you willing to spend $500 to $1,000 to subsidize a second high school team or $2,500 to play travel hockey, I’d know what my answer would be.
My guess is most of them will be lost to hockey.
It’s either going to be a modified, 7, 8, 9 and one North/South varsity for 10, 11 and 12 or two varsity teams and no modified. That’s the bottom line! The best will make the teams and the others will have to play travel or whatever. Can’t ever see the district going for one school team funded by the parents – there are other things involved – buses, liability, coaches, etc., which team funded by school and which funded by parents, do they share cost? It just wouldn’t fly by this administration.
North of Main-
You referred to this as my team. Just to let you know, I do not live in Clarkstown nor am I an alum of either of those schools. Just a fan of HS Hockey in the area that is pretty involved in everything, and someone who thinks it stinks that this is happening.
To your point, yes, the kid can work harder to make the team the next year and if that is what they must do, then so be it. Unfortunately, getting cut from the HS team may make the kid decide not to continue his hockey career. Most kids realize (as has been beat to death many times over on this blog) that their hockey careers will be over after graduation barring some play in a mens league here and there. For those kids, the HS team is the culmination of their career. If that is de-railed as a junior, they may just decide to hang it up. If too many kids do this, then the team (and number of players in the district) will suffer. From a parent’s perspective. I know a lot of people currently and from when I was growing up who played travel and when they got to high school, stopped travel in order to play high school. In part to avoid conflicts, but also (Which goes along with Bundy’s point) because mom & dad had been paying a few grand a year to get them to that point. Let them play for the school’s team in front of their friends for a few years and give the wallet a breather. A kid who was a Sophomore on South this year and gets cut from the merged team next year because of the numbers game, his parents may not be willing to open the checkbook back up to fork over a few grand to the Saints or Capitals in these tough economic times.
The problem is that in pretty much every other sport (and I understand how much more hockey costs than the others), a kid who doesn’t make Varsity still can play JV as long as he’s not a senior. There are way too many kids playing hockey in that district to not have an intermediate team to bridge the gap between modified and varsity if you are going to cut it down to one varsity and one modified.
South/North & North/south hockey-
You guys are missing the point. I am not saying that one team is school-funded and the other parent-funded. What I am saying is that the amount that the school is willing to pay for one Varsity team, when doubled would be enough to pay for two. Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that number is $30,000 and that is the dollar amount that CCSD is willing to pay for Varsity hockey. They have budgeted into that busses, salaries, equipment, ice time, insurance, and everything else. That means that the parents/kids of both North & South combined would need to come up with $30,000 to create a second team. Everything with the two schools has always been done jointly anyway when it comes to payment. They have one contract with the rink to cover ice time which gets split between the two programs, they have one contract with the bus company which provides transportation for both teams, etc. If the Clarkstown booster club raises all this extra cash, it would go into some sort of general fund with a treasurer (similar to a youth hockey program) and pay the mall for ice time out of it. Over half the hockey budget goes to ice time anyway, so the school’s $30,000 goes towards everything non-ice related with the leftover going towards ice time, and the raised money foots the rest of the ice-bill.
LoHud,
The school district can not budget on a “what if”. If the “what if” comes up short, then the district is stuck with the bill. It would not work, they would not commit to that. Clarkstown has it’s own busses, no contract, and the clarkstown ice bill alone is 30,000! The said that in the meeting. Ice alone for one team!! Your numbers are deflated.
LoHud,
Sorry, I meant their team, not your team. Sorry for the inference, it was unintentional.
South/North-
Not sure how long you have been following this thread, but I said at least a handful of times already that I don’t know exactly what the number is, I am just using a hypothetical number that is in the ballpark of what the hockey budget is on every budget I have seen. It makes it easier than just saying “X dollars.” Not everyone follows algebra very easily.
Second, it would not be a “What If.” Either the parents/students commit to raising the money or they don’t. If they do, then there is enough money there to field two teams. If they will not commit to that, then there is not, and they would only be able to afford one team.
Lastly, if the Superintendant tells you that the budget for ice time for one team is $30,000 and you believe her, then one of two things is happening. Either she is over-budgeting for this line item, or she is pulling the wool over your eyes. I know how much ice costs per hour at the mall and I know how many home games each team plays. If the ice budget is $30,000 then after you take out 20 hours for 10 home games, that would mean each team is practicing 4 times per week. I may be wrong on this, but to my knowledge, the only team west of the river that is practicing four times per week is Suffern.
North used to practice 4 times a week too. Has that changed?
I say cut out the bussing if it really does approach 40 to 50% of the budget. Since we are now largely in geography based leagues, parents should be able to carpool the kids to games, just like in travel hockey. Have anyone interested in playing HS hockey show proof of insurance. 10 home games (ice and refs) is about $11,000, right? Give the coaches a stipend. Pay security guards/trainers some OT. Maybe $9,000 total for all that. Have two 1 hour ice sheets per week for practice. Make the coaches and players use that ice efficiently. Have off ice meetings before the ice sessions to explain the goal of that 1 hour on the ice. Have follow up chalk board sessions after the on ice practice. Rest of week is dry land (weights and track work). Including Sectional playoffs, it is a 17 week season with Thanksgiving and XMas in the middle. So, say 15 weeks of practice. Maybe start one week later on the ice practice and focus on dryland in early Novemeber. That is 28 hours of ice time for a season of practices. $15,000 at most, right? All of a sudden, you can run a barebones HS hockey program for about $35,000. Use booster club dues and fundraisers for busses and hotels for regular season upstate trips. Does the Section cover travel/hosting costs for regional and Frozen Four matches?
People who play travel especially the higher levels do not bat an eye at $$$ for hockey. Fund raising is another way of helping with the costs. While Modified teams seem like a good idea that may be a waste of $$$. They play a limited number of games to begin with and almost all of those kids playing modified are either playing travel or can play travel. I doubt modified really makes a difference in development like jv in other sports.
Untrue…modified introduces alot of kids to hockey. You’ll get a good athlete who laces up the skates for the first time as a 7th grader. They like it enough, they keep playing, perhaps join a bantam B travel team and continue the progression to become an effective high school player.
There are now kids on North and South that have gone this route.
This is I’m afraid what Clarkstown will lose. There are enough travel kids in the district to (over)populate both a single modified and varsity team. This is great from a competitive point of view, short term, but ultimately results in less hockey players.
How much does it cost to support a High School Football team? Do the players have to kick in any funds to play? And How much does it cost for equipment for 60 players, Buses for the Team, Band, and Buses for the Cheerleaders etc…..... How much does it cost to have someone to cut the grass? or how much does it cost to put down a “TURF” field?
does anyone know when next years (2010-2011) scheldules come out?
rumor is true….stark will be leaving suffern next season
A high school football team serves as an extracurricular activity for up to 110 people, with a 50 person roster, 40 piece band, and 20 person cheerleading squad.
Hockey serves as an extracurricular for 20 people. Not a fair comparison.
to go where?
i honestly dont know but i would imagine he is going back to St. Joes
Regarding Stark, it doesn’t really matter that much. Suffern will find someone who will do just fine with that group in front of him.
good luck next year rye. Rix let up 6 in 2 periods and we finished u easily 8-2. All that can be said is good luck
Lets be serious good luck. Most of Rye’s regulars are playing spring sports. A few are rehabbing injuries. The Spring hockey team is mostly modified kids with a few upperclassmen helping out. Coach just rolling lines of inexperienced kids. Maybe 1/3 of the kids on the Rye Spring team will make the varsity roster next year. Even less than that will see ice time. Maybe its the same situation with Pelham. All that means is the Pelicans may have a stronger modified team next season.
To good luck, Hey maybe I let up 6 goals in 2 periods becuase I was at a Sublime concert in the city until 2am the night before and almost fell asleep on that pond like ice. But thats just a thought anyway all goalies have off nights. Brb judging teams on their spring league performance.